Steve Jobs on Apple's Turnaround

Was that initial excitement all just a fictitious, if thrilling, children's story? Or is the next chapter for Steve Jobs likely to be his goriest? What should we expect next from Pixar? Well, you know, Toy Story has really exceeded our expectations. It's about $180 million right now, I think, in domestic box office. It's being released internationally as we speak, and we're coming out with some CD-ROMs based on Toy Story starting in April, and they're dynamite. I think they're going to pretty much set a new benchmark for what can be done with CD-ROMs. Home video was expected later on this year, and we're well at work on our second film. We're about a year into development on it, so I think we have a business model, which is that we make feature films and surround them with a

suite of related products. In addition to merchandise and home video, there's CD-ROMs and potentially, you know, sequels at some point in time. You first came to public attention with Apple. In recent weeks, it's been one of the failure stories of Wall Street and indeed of the American economy. What went wrong at Apple? Oh gosh, you know, Apple hasn't been there in a long time, but my perception—he won't blame you for what happened less than 10 years ago. No, I mean, my perception may not be complete, but from the way I see it, I mean, Apple's a company that was based on innovation. When I left Apple that 10 years ago, we were 10 years ahead of anybody else. It took Microsoft 10 years to copy Windows. The problem was

is that Apple stood still. Even though it invested cumulatively billions in R&D, the output has not been there, and people have caught up with it, and its differentiation has eroded, in particular with respect to Microsoft. And so the way out for Apple—and I still think Apple has a future—there's some awfully good people there, and there's a tremendous brand loyalty to that company. I think the way out is not to slash and burn; it's to innovate. That's how Apple got to its glory, and I think that's how Apple could return to it. Next, which is your private venture, specializes in what's called object-based software. Could you explain that to someone who is not a computer nerd? Sure. The way that we—most people still build software today,

they build everything custom. Really, everything's built by hand, and everything's custom. There's no ability to reuse software that you had written prior or that somebody else had written, and objects are a way to basically allow people to reuse software an order of magnitude or two more efficiently than they can today. It's sort of the Industrial Revolution of software. Is this on a grander scale the equivalent of coin up a macro on the computer? It's even much beyond that. It's sort of interchangeable parts, much like the Industrial Revolution brought to the manufacturing of hard goods. You have talked about Apple somewhat gently; you've also mentioned Microsoft. Much of your current efforts seem directed at constraining Microsoft. Is that accurate?

Me? No. Well, I've read some of these computer nerd publications lately, and it seems to me that the fight for the internet you envision as anybody but Bill Gates. Well, I think there's a lot of people working on stuff for the internet, and NeXT is one of those companies as well. And for me, the most exciting thing, you know, in the software area is the internet. And part of the reason for that is no one owns it. It's a free-for-all. It's much like the early days of the personal computer, and the rate of innovation is very high. And we know from experience now that if any one company gets a dominant position in it, no matter who that is, the rate of innovation is going to drop precipitously, and we'd like to not see

that happen forever, or at least for quite some time. I assume, as a good entrepreneur, you want the market to limit him, not the government. Is that correct? Uh, yeah. I don't get into that so much. I, you know, I think I admire Microsoft for their achievements, and I think though that the net may be something that is, you know, we're going to see innovation contain them, and I'm hoping that's the case. Was that initial excitement all just a fictitious, if thrilling, children's story? Or is the next chapter for Steve Jobs likely to be his gaudiest? What should we expect next from Pixar? Well, you know, Toy Story has really exceeded our expectations. It's about a hundred and eighty million right now, I think, in domestic box office. It's

being released internationally as we speak, and we're coming out with some CD-ROMs based on Toy Story starting in April. They're dynamite; I think they're going to pretty much set a new benchmark for what can be done with CD-ROMs. Home video was expected later on this year, and we're well at work on our second film. We're about a year into development on it, so I think we have a business model, which is that we make feature films and surround them with a suite of related products. In addition to merchandise and home video, there's CD-ROMs and potentially, you know, sequels at some point in time. You first came to public attention with Apple. In recent weeks, it's been one of the failure stories of Wall Street and indeed of the American

economy. What went wrong at Apple? Oh gosh, you know, Apple—I haven't been there in a long time, but my perception won't blame you for what happened less than 10 years ago. No, I mean, if my perception may not be complete, but from the way I see it, I mean, Apple's a company that was based on innovation. When I left Apple that 10 years ago, we were 10 years ahead of anybody else. It took Microsoft 10 years to copy Windows. The problem was is that Apple stood still. Even though it invested cumulatively billions in R&D, the output has not been there, and people have caught up with it, and its differentiation has eroded, in particular with respect to Microsoft. And so the way out for Apple, and I still think Apple

Has a future. There's some awfully good people there, and there's a tremendous brand loyalty to that company. I think the way out is not to slash and burn; it's to innovate. That's how Apple got to its glory, and I think that's how Apple could return to it. Next, which is your private venture, specializes in what's called object-based software. Could you explain that to someone who is not a computer nerd? Sure. The way that we—most people still build software today, they build everything custom. Really, everything's built by hand and everything's custom. There's no ability to reuse software that you had written prior or that somebody else had written. And objects are a way to basically allow people to reuse software an order of magnitude or...

Two, more efficiently than they can today. It's sort of the Industrial Revolution of software. Is this on a grander scale the equivalent of the coin-up macro on the computer? It's even much beyond. It's sort of interchangeable parts, much like the Industrial Revolution brought to the manufacturing of hard goods. You have talked about Apple somewhat gently. You've also mentioned Microsoft. Much of your current efforts seem directed at constraining Microsoft. Is that accurate? Me? No. You—well, I've read some of these computer nerd publications lately and it seems to me that the fight for the internet you envision is anybody but Bill Gates. Well, I think there's a lot of people working on stuff for the internet, and NeXT is one of those, those.

Companies as well. And for me, the most exciting thing, you know, in the software area is the Inner.