Steve Jobs on Apple Origins: From Blue Boxes to the Apple I

Thank you for watching. This is not Ibn Al-Aas, this is Omar.

We have a comment on the episode of Steve Jobs, the village interview. What do you think we will do in this episode, Omar? Hello everyone, I don't know what to say except to say hello to our prophet, Dr. George. I will consider this episode an experimental one for the beginning of a new series. I call it Inhuman Development. We will do an experiment with today's video. We will show it and say what it says and the video in English. I will say what it says and comment on it.

I have been thinking about this idea for a long time. Not about the series, but about the idea of human development. The group of people like Ibrahim Al-Faqi and others. I have been thinking about this idea for a long time. Why? Because it is a very strange idea. The idea of human development or the movement of human development is based on a very strange idea. The idea that a person made a computer and it has a catalog. And I came to tell you to do this and that. This idea is very stupid. It is not something that will benefit all people. I don't have a problem with you saying that I personally did this and it benefited me.

This is what we will do today. But the idea that you come and tell me to do this and that. This is 100% true. Especially most of what you say is very truthful. And most of the people who came out of this, I am sure more than 90% of them, Their only success in life is the issue of human development itself. The person who is talking to you now has never succeeded in anything else. It has nothing to do with this. To come and look at us and tell us how to be successful in life. You are already a failure. You have no success in life. So you came to look at us. And it is supposed that you are one of the few people in this field Who had achievements in life before you entered this field. Does this mean that everything you did benefits all people?

Is this principle logical? That a person who is a developed person is not a person who has been designed. Not all of them are the same. You can't come and tell me that this and that benefits all people. Or that you do this and that. This idea is very stupid. I have been thinking about this issue for a long time. And one of the things that I thought about for a while Is the people I read about, or heard about, or saw in interviews. Or I learned about their life story in different ways. Or I learned to read them in real life. I read their books that they wrote. Which is the idea that you see what this person did, His behaviors in certain situations, And how he thinks, and why he does that. Not because you do like him.

Because he asks nice questions, and tells you his answers. You can get out of this by not doing anything of what he does. And yet you benefited. Why? Because he asked a nice question, And when he thought about it, what did he come up with? You go and think about the same question, And see what your answer is, and see what suits you. If there are certain things that he does that suit you, do them. For example, Steve Jobs, who is the hero of today's video, Did it after this video, a while after Apple came back. When Steve grew up, it was known that he had a uniform. He also had this idea in his entire life. But I think that in order to do this in your entire life, You have to be very extroverted. But let's talk about work.

There are many people who wake up every morning, And say, I don't know what I'm going to wear today, And I don't know what I'm going to do. And many of the successful people who have a business, Or big managers in companies, Discovered that this makes you have a lot of pressure on your nerves. So many of them made a uniform for themselves. For example, Steve was very extroverted about this. It was known to him that he wore jeans, Which were all the same color as the blue of that time, And he didn't even wear a belt. And he wore a shirt called a turtleneck, Which is a neck shirt, black. And he had, for example, 60 of these shirts, From the same brand, from the same company, With the same size, with the same everything. And he had, for example, 20 of these pants. So he wakes up in the morning, And he wears the first clean one of these two.

He doesn't have any thoughts or any normal time in all of this. That's it. I think that these are some of the good ideas That I try to apply in my life. But I'm not able to apply them in my entire life. I think that you can apply them at work. But you don't have to do it like me. And honestly, his look was very difficult. You can buy a good shirt, And fix it, or even buy a few colors from it, But you remove the idea that you sit around And apply these things. You remove this idea, And it turns out that it's a useful thing. And these are some of the things that they knew From schools in the West. They did studies on schools that have uniforms, And schools that don't have uniforms. Children in schools that have uniforms, Regardless of the shape of the uniform, We can talk about the shape of the uniform, And how it affects the children, But the idea of the uniform itself.

The children themselves were happier. Because there's no room for you to compare yourself To other people, and wake up in the morning And say, what am I going to wear today? And your mom will be upset with you, But that's it, this is a uniform, And we're going to wear it, and that's it. That's it. That's why I called this series Non-Human Development. I want to show things like this, That I've been exposed to in my life, And some of them are good ideas, And I want to show a group of people The story of their lives, And see that they're special people for me. And see the things that they think about, And things like that. So... Let's go Omar B, And I just want to say something. There are people who succeed in one thing, And don't succeed in another.

A person can be creative in one thing, And not creative in another. Not everyone loves engineering, And not everyone loves medicine, And everyone has different tastes, Except for the commodity. So, what you've applied in your life, And succeeded, So if I applied it in my life, I would succeed. No, that's the opposite. You might be studying from the first day of the year, And I've been studying for the last two months, And you succeed, and I succeed. Everyone has their own way. Go ahead, Banna. Go ahead, Banna. Exactly. Especially that not everyone has the same goals. I think that the most important goal in life, Is to live as long as possible, And to be as happy as possible, And to be as healthy as possible, And to be as relaxed as possible.

That should be the goal of the naturalists. Okay? So not everyone has the same desires, And not everyone has the same needs. And that's also one of the things that excites me, When someone comes to give advice. To give himself his place, With his desires, With his way of thinking, With his needs, He is himself. You don't take this person, And try to see what his desires are. Like someone comes to you and says, Buy me a mobile phone. You don't ask him, for example, What kind of mobile phone he uses, Or what needs he has. No, you tell him the mobile phone you want to buy. That's a very strange thing. Because he's not you. For example, if you ask a friend, He doesn't understand the mobile phone.

The mobile phone that benefits him, Not the one that benefits you. So the idea of human development is based on this. That I tell you things that are beneficial to me. For example, there are people, When their office is organized, For them, this is the peak of their rest, And they can focus on their work, And they can do everything. There are other people, no. There are other people, if everything is organized, For example, the pen next to the pen, It's not comfortable, And it's not satisfying. And that's what makes it more productive and happier. So, I mean, benefit from the experiences of others. But we want to get rid of the idea of That one person comes out and says, I have a catalog here, And we all follow it. I agree with you, Mr. B. Let's start with the blessing of the skin, Omar B., And we start with the video.

Okay, a quick introduction before the video, Just so people understand the background of the subject. I mean, I'm going to dedicate episodes after that, To the story of the life of Steve Jobs, Who is one of the founders of Apple. because the story of his life is very interesting. Just a quick introduction, he will say some details in the middle of the video, so that people can follow it. In short, there are two people, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. They founded Apple. These two met, they are friends. He will tell you the details of the matter. They were very interested in computers, so they made a small company in the garage of one of their houses, they made small computers, they made what they call a board, or a board, which is a printed circuit board, and they put it in a wooden chassis, and they delivered it, there was a time when there was a very small company, small televisions, if people remember it.

So they brought their screen, and they made it in a wooden chassis, and this is a computer, and they sold it like that. This is how the company started. Then they needed some money, when they started making the Emera 2 model, they produced these things in a more professional way. So there was one of Intel's companies, which makes the processors of these computers, he was one of the great engineers who joined Intel in the beginning, so when Intel started selling on the stock market, he made a lot of money. So he decided to retire, and he invested his money in oil and gas, he bought some stocks in oil companies, and after a while he got bored, so he decided to invest his money. So there was a guy, Steve Jobs, who was one of the founders of Apple, he tried to convince him to invest with them, so the guy said, no, I'm not interested in investing in a company like yours, but there is a friend of mine, who is the guy I'm talking about, he might be interested to talk to him.

So he went and met Steve, but Steve said, no, I don't want you to invest with us, I want you to come and invest, but you have to be one of the company's managers as well, because they were young at the time, and they didn't know how to manage the company. And then the company started to grow, when it reached a certain size, they needed a big manager in the company, so Steve Jobs went and looked for a CEO, or a big company manager, so he brought... I forgot his name, his name will be mentioned in the video. He was the CEO of Pepsi, so he brought him, he was the CEO of the company, but they weren't the main shareholders, so people would understand what would happen next.

When they needed a lot of money to grow the company, a lot of investors came in, and they didn't become... yes, they had a lot of shares in the company, but they didn't become the main managers of the company, and because they were young at the time, and they didn't have experience in management, so the two founders of the company, yes, they had a big position in the company, but they weren't in the top management. They were all business people. But at some point, he will talk about it in the video, and there was a disagreement between them, and Steve left the company, we will understand it from the video. During this period, he left and created a small company called Next, and he stayed for about 10 years, between the two periods I will talk about.

This interview was done with him in the middle of this period. After that, for a short period, he created a company called Apple, and he created the two companies we see now, which are the iPhone and the big Max, and he is considered the youngest in the company, and we will talk about this later, but of course he won't talk about this in the video, because the video was before this period. So this video is one of Steve's special videos, because he talks about it honestly, because he didn't stay for a long time, he left the old company, and there were disagreements between them, and he talks honestly, and he says his point of view in life, and his founder, I mean the interviewer who he talks about, has a solid experience in computers, and he was doing a series called Rise of the Nerds, where he meets people who are founders of modern computer technology, so he understood and studied, and he asks very good questions, he opens up topics, so this is one of the few interviews, and we will see at the beginning, he will explain the story of this interview, it has a funny story, but we will introduce it in this video, so let's start, Can you see me now?

Yes, Sorry, I will make a stop screen, because I didn't make a voice. I want to say before we start, that we say in every episode, that the live chat on the other channel, is only live, the live chat on the other channel, is not live, it will be closed, and the live chat will be only on the other live channel, and there is a link in the live chat, in the other regular channel, we would like to point out that, if you want to follow us on the live chat, you should follow us on the other live channel.

We will start with the blessing of the skin, we will make a share screen, and we will start. Go ahead. Ok, tell me if there is a sound, there is no sound in this part yet. Sound is ok Omar. Ok, one second, I want to make sure. I will turn on the live chat. Little did we know that within 18 months, he would sell Next to Apple, and 6 months later, he would be running the place.

This was part of the deal, that Steve would go back to the company, and he would be the CEO, not Scully, Scully had been gone for a while, he had been rejected as well. But the person who was in charge at the time, was the CEO, temporarily, it was supposed to be temporarily, and then he stayed until he died. That's it, this interview was done during the period between those two, so after only 18 months, Steve had the deal that we are talking about. Let's continue. There are very few TV interviews with Steve Jobs, and almost no good ones.

They rarely show the charisma, candor, and vision that this interview does. When it was shown, as soon as they decided to show it, the original tape that was being recorded, was being transported from London to America, and it was lost in the traffic jam. They stayed for a long time, so they thought that the interview was lost forever. Then, one of the producers, or the producers of the show, found a copy of the VHS tape, which is the tape of the video that broke, the old video.

They found it, and produced it, and this was the first time that this whole interview was shown. He says that this is one of the few interviews that shows the charisma, and the vision of Steve Jobs, so I really think that it is a very special interview. Let's continue. So, how did you get involved with personal computers? I went into my first computer when I was about 10 or 11 and it's hard to remember back then but I'm a fossil now I'm an old fossil so when I was 10 or 11 was about 30 years ago and no one had ever seen a computer to the extent that they'd seen them they'd seen them in movies and they were these big boxes with warring for some reason they fixated on the tape drives as being the icon of what the computer was or flashing lights somehow and so nobody'd ever seen one they're very mysterious very powerful things that did something in

the background and so to see one and actually get to use one was a real privilege back then and I got into NASA Ames Research Center down here and I got to use a time-sharing terminal so I didn't actually see the computer but I saw a time-sharing terminal and in those days again it's it's hard to remember how primitive it was it there was no such thing as a as a computer with a graphics video display it was literally a printer it was a teletype printer with a keyboard on it so you would keyboard these commands in and then you would wait for a while and then the thing would go and it would tell you something out Okay, this guy is saying that the first time he saw a computer he was about 10 years old and at the time of this interview he was about 40 years old, almost 30 years old so at the time a computer was a big thing that would be in a big room that would be cooled and it would always come in movies and if people would remember it it would be in a box like and there would be a big chair like this and this chair would rotate like this and this chair which is what is represented in the modern computer, the hard disk, which is the writeable memory, not the RAM, which is the hard disk, that's it, so he says that at the time the computer was a very expensive and big thing so you wouldn't be the person sitting on the computer, no, there would be a computer in a certain far place and you would be sitting at something called the terminal, this terminal is a keyboard and a peripheral output and it would connect to the computer itself and you and a lot of people would connect to the computer and it would show you, also at the time most computers didn't even have

a screen, the computer was like a typewriter, it was called a typewriter, a keyboard and there was a printer, so what would you do, you would write the commands that you wanted the computer to do, like a small program like this, at the time, of course, every computer would calculate things, you would write on it a small program like this, you wanted to calculate something, there is no longer the story that we have now, which is of all the possibilities, the computer at the time was really considered a computer, this computer came from the word compute, which means to calculate, so he says that what you would do is that you would write the commands and press enter, so you would send it and then the computer would take its time, for example, it would take two or three minutes, and then you would find the printer in front of you doing this, at the time the printers, we are talking about old printers, not the printers that we have now, like the laser or even the printer that came out, no, the printer was printing letter by letter, there was something going on and it would do like a typewriter, just like that, so he would say that the first computer he saw was at NASA at something called the Ames Research Center, he knew someone at NASA and he took him, he was 10 years old, to look at this computer and use it, maybe it was something through the school he was in or something like that, but he would say that this was the first computer he saw.

But even with that, it was still remarkable, especially for a 10 year old, that you could write a program in BASIC, let's say, or FORTRAN, and actually this machine would sort of take your idea and it would sort of execute your idea and give you back some results, and if they were the results that you predicted, your program really worked, it was an incredibly thrilling experience. So... I became very captivated by a computer, and a computer to me was still a little mysterious because it was at the other end of this wire and I'd never really seen the actual computer itself, and then I got tours of computers after that and saw the insides, and then I was part of this group at Hewlett-Packard, when I was 12 I called up Bill Hewlett, who lived in Hewlett-Packard at the time, and again this dates me, but there was no such

thing as an unlisted telephone number then, so I could just look in the book and look his name up, and he answered the phone and I said, Hi, my name is Steve Jobs, you don't know me, but I'm 12 years old and I'm building a frequency counter, and I'd like some spare parts, and so he talked to me for about 20 minutes, I'll never forget it as long as I live, and he gave me the parts, but he also gave me a job working at Hewlett-Packard that summer. So here he's talking about the next phase of his life, he was 12 years old, and he was trying to do something called a frequency counter, a small device, electronics, that is, it counts, it counts something in an electronic way, so he needed the parts that he made from it, and it seems that he, of course the kid was 12 years old, so he didn't have the money to go to Radio Shack and buy these things, so he did something very funny, he said, at the time, of course, it was different from the time we're in now, he talked about Hewlett, which is the founder of Hewlett-Packard, Hewlett-Packard is now called HP, HP is short for Hewlett and Packard, so his phone was there, the phone of the company's manager and the company's founder, it was in the phone evidence, you could open the phone evidence like this and go on the phone and call him, so he called me and said, you don't know me, my name is Steve Jobs, I'm 12 years old, and I'm trying to build a frequency counter, and I needed the parts, so he says he's a man, I talk to him for 20 minutes, a third of an hour, we're talking about an important person, not just anyone, and he gave him the parts

he needed, but he also gave him a job in the next summer, of course, he's a kid, he's 12 years old, he worked in the summer, in the company, in Hewlett-Packard, or in HP, and then he continued his experience with HP. And I was 12 years old, and that really made a remarkable influence on me, Hewlett-Packard was really the only company I'd ever seen in my life at that age, and it formed my view of what a company was, and how well they treated their employees. At that time, they didn't know about cholesterol back then, but at that time they used to bring a big cart full of donuts and coffee out at 10 o'clock every morning, everybody would take a coffee and donut break, and little things like that, it was clear that the company recognized that its true value was its employees.

Here he's talking about how HP was the first company he'd seen, of course, he's a kid, he's 12 years old, so he used to say that the atmosphere in HP was unusual, there was an atmosphere, for example, and he's even jokingly saying that at that time they didn't know about cholesterol and things like that, so every morning they'd bring them donuts and coffee and stuff like that, and they'd go in and create an atmosphere, and they'd start saying that, and that gave them the impression that HP was aware of the true value of the company in its employees. The employee is the thing, the basic thing that the company owns. Of course, the place and the other resources are important and everything, but the company was aware that this person has value, and that investing in a person has value, so he says that he learned from HP this part automatically, he was a kid, no one sat with him and told him, we at HP evaluate the value of a person, and a person is the most important thing.

No, he saw this subject in a blind way on Earth. Is the screen gone, or did you bring it? Yes, it's fine. So anyway, things led to things with Hewlett-Packard, and I started going up to their Palo Alto research labs every Tuesday night with a small group of people to meet some of the researchers and stuff, and I saw the first desktop computer ever made, which was the Hewlett-Packard 9100. It was about as big as a suitcase, but it actually had a small cathode ray tube display in it, and it was completely self-contained. There was no wire going off behind the curtain somewhere, and I fell in love with it. You could program it in BASIC and APL. And I would just, for hours, you know, get a ride up to Hewlett-Packard and just hang around that machine and write programs for it.

And so that was the early days. He was talking about the first computer, not a personal computer, but one that was self-contained. If we remember, he was talking about the computers that he was exposed to at first, they were like terminals that he sat on, and there was a cable, and the computer itself was somewhere else, and the computer itself was a very expensive device, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. It was impossible for one person to work on it. So he says that his work after that, at Palo Alto Research Center, which is owned by HP, he saw the first self-contained computer, the 9100, and he worked on it, and it was all in one place, and he was also writing programs for it in BASIC and another language called ADL.

So that was also one of the things that he was exposed to. and was living with his parents and going to De Anza, the local junior college. So we became fast friends and started doing projects together. We read about the story in Esquire magazine.

Steve Wozniak was 5 years older than Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was 14 or 15 years old at the time, the other one was 20 years old, and he was in a university, and then he started doing projects and stuff like that. Not projects, he was doing something called pranks, he was making pranks on his colleagues and stuff like that. So he was expelled from the university, and then he had to go to something called a college, or a community college, which was a higher education, but less. So at that time, he met Steve Wozniak, and they became friends from day one, because Steve Jobs said that Wozniak was the first person Steve Jobs met who knew about electronics more than Steve Jobs himself.

So Steve Jobs felt that this person knew a lot more about electronics than him, so there was a respect for Steve Jobs for Steve Wozniak. Ok, because this segment is complicated, I'll keep it short. At that time, there were 12 articles in a magazine called Esquire, 12 articles about a guy named Captain Crunch.

Captain Crunch was a cornflakes or cereal that was sold in America, and he would come with a box of them, a gift that would come inside the box. So this guy discovered something that Steve was going to say about it, and he used this cornflakes to make long-distance calls, or what they used to call a trunk in Egypt. Do you remember this story, Abu Yusuf? Did you watch that day? The trunk, yes. Hello, hello, Bandar. Exactly. This trunk in America was expensive. This trunk was expensive. So this article claimed that this guy, Captain Crunch, or he called himself Captain Crunch, found a way to make these calls for free, using this cornflakes.

That's why he called himself Captain Crunch. So Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak said, of course, this is not true. So let's see what they did. Secret tones that would allow you to do this. And it turned out we were at Stanford Linear Accelerator Center one night, and way in the bowels of their technical library, way down at the last bookshelf in the corner bottom rack, we found an AT&T technical journal that laid out the whole thing. Which was the company that was completely in control of all the phone calls in America.

So they spent the night looking for it in a lot of places, until they went to Stanford University, to something called the Linear Accelerator Center, which is their library. And they found in the last row of the library, in the last row down, the technical manual of AT&T, of a certain thing that they had. And they found written in it what was the thing that he was talking about. And it was the signal from one telephone computer to another, controlling the computers in the network.

And AT&T made a fatal flaw when they designed the original telephone network, digital telephone network, was they put the signaling from computer to computer in the same band as your voice. Which meant that if you could make those same signals, you could put it right in through the handset, and literally the entire AT&T international phone network would think you were an AT&T computer. This is a bit technical, but I'll give people an idea so you can understand what he's talking about. He's talking about... There's something he didn't say, but I'll say it, because I read about it. At the time, ordinary people, who were out of the field, weren't interested in these things at all. The idea that you become someone out of the field, or out of AT&T, and become a hacker, for example, or try to break in, this idea wasn't even proposed.

This science, or this technology itself, was the principle that was then called security by obscurity. Meaning, security, through obscurity, which means that the information is not known. Not a secret, but information about the telephone networks and things like that, wasn't as widespread as it is now. So AT&T made a mistake. A while ago, there was a transfer. If people remember the telephone in Egypt, back in the day, when you called, it would ring a bell. For example, when you dial 9, it would ring 9 times. And when you dial 8, it would ring 8 times.

I don't even know if people knew about this, but there were phones that were locked with a lock. If you wanted to receive a call, but you didn't call, they would lock the door with a lock. I used to call, Omar B. I used to call and keep dialing until the phone rang. I used to call and keep dialing until the phone rang. You know about this. A lot of people don't know about this. Even with this lock, the phone itself... The temperature. The phone itself, what? The temperature. Yes, the phone you put the phone on, which is the thing that goes down. If you did the same number of taps on it, it would have the same effect.

So you don't even need to dial the bell. And then, this was called Pulse. This technology was called Pulse, which is this tap. Then they transferred to something else, a newer technology, so they could make more advanced networks. Telephone networks. A land phone, of course. We're all talking about land phones. It's called Tune. So if people remembered back then, I honestly don't know if Egypt knew about this, but they probably did. When you used to make calls or something like that, you'd hear this sound in the background. The thing is, AT&T needed, when you made an international call, or a trunk, or something like that, they needed to open these channels for you. Certain computers were distributed in a certain way to open the channel that connected you to a phone in another area.

So this was done through computers. There were a lot of computers that were distributed. These were the ones that took orders and sent messages so that you could register this thing so that it would be sent to you later in the bill. Things like that. So they made a mistake by putting the calls between these computers in the same sound channel that your voice would go through. But they were doing the trill that you use when computers talk to each other, as other sounds other than what you do when you type 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 0, other frequencies. So they discovered from this manual that if you can do these frequencies yourself and you put this sound in the headset itself, you can convince the computer to communicate with you and convince it to open a channel for you or let it do whatever you want.

So it makes the call for free. It makes the call for free and this is what is required. Exactly. But we woke some guy up in the middle of the night and we were yelling at him, like, don't you understand we made this call for free? And this person didn't appreciate that. It was miraculous.

And we built these little boxes to do blue boxing as it was called and we put a little note in the bottom of them. Our logo was he's got the whole world in his hands. And they work. We built the best blue box in the world. It was all digital, no adjustments. So you could go up to a payphone and you could take a trunk over to White Plains and then take a satellite over to Europe and then go to Turkey, take a cable back to Atlanta. And you could go around the world five or six times because we learned all the codes for how to get on the satellites and stuff. And then you could call the payphone next door and so you could shout in the phone and after about a minute, it would come out the other phone. It was miraculous. This subject was later called blue boxing.

They weren't the only ones who did it. As we said, the ones who invented it were Captain Crunch. There were a lot of people who did it. But they did it in a way that... Of course, this subject was considered illegal. They were doing it under the pretext of peace. But their blue box was all digital. There wasn't anything you needed to do manually with your hands. And they made it like a trunk and they put a little logo on it You've got the whole world in your hand. You might ask, well, what's so interesting about that?

What's so interesting is that we were young and what we learned was that we could build something ourselves that could control billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in the world. That was what we learned. It was that us two, we didn't know much, we could build a little thing that could control a giant thing. And that was an incredible lesson. I don't think there would have ever been an Apple computer had there not been blue boxing. I said you called the Pope. Yeah, we did call the Pope. He pretended to be Henry Kissinger. Here he says that it had a big impact on his life.

And that if there hadn't been blue boxing, there wouldn't have been an Apple computer or anything he did after that. Because that gave them the idea that he and his friend were nobodies. They didn't have any importance in life. They didn't know much. But this information allowed them, two young people with a little information, two young people with a little information, to be able to control something big and do something huge and have a great impact. And then he talks about what they did with the blue box. He says that Steve Wozniak tried to talk to the Pope in Rome. So we never got to talk to the Pope.

But it was very funny. So they jumped from blue boxes to personal computers. What sparked that? Well, necessity. I'm asking him how he got from the blue box to personal computers, which is the main thing Steve did in his life.

So what an Apple 1 was, was really an extension of this terminal putting a microprocessor on the back end. That's what it was. It was really kind of two separate projects put together. So first we built the terminal and then we built the Apple 1. And we really built it for ourselves because we couldn't afford to buy anything. And we'd scavenge parts here and there and stuff. And we did it all by hand. I mean, it'd take 40 to 80 hours to build one. And then they'd always be breaking because there's all these tiny little wires. So it turned out a lot of our friends wanted to build them too. And although they could scavenge most of the parts as well, they didn't have the sort of skills to build them that we had acquired by training ourselves through building them.

And so we ended up helping them build most of their computers. And it was really taking up all of our time. And we thought, you know, if we could make what's called a printed circuit board, which is a piece of fiberglass with copper on both sides that's etched to form the wires so that you could build a computer. You know, you could build an Apple 1 in a few hours instead of 40 hours. If we only had one of those, we could sell them to all our friends for, you know, as much as it cost us to make them and make our money back. And everybody would be happy. We'd say, you know, we'd get a life again. So here he's talking about how they started. As you can see, they really loved computers. So what was available at the time was a company that sold something called time-sharing. Like we said, it's the big computer that's in a certain place, and you can go to the place that's in the company and buy time on the computer.

But you needed to get your terminal. This terminal is a screen, a keyboard, and a few peripherals that you connect to the cell. So he says that they didn't have the money to buy a terminal, so they made a terminal for themselves. The Apple 1 was this terminal, and they attached a small computer to it, or a microprocessor, which is what's available in all computers today, like the Core i5 or the Core i7, which is called a microprocessor. So the Apple 1 was a development of the terminal that they made, so that it would be a complete computer, but a computer as small and powerful as it was.

But he says that when they first made it, they made it for themselves. And then there were a lot of friends who wanted to play with the computer and use it, but they didn't have the capabilities, because Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak had them in the electronics itself. At the time, this computer was used manually. What does manual mean? It means that the components of this computer are like chips, and they connect them together with small copper wires. So when they started asking for it, and they made it a lot, they found that there was an easier way than that, which they called the PCB, or the Printed Circuit Board, which is if people open any computer or any electronic device, it becomes a green board like this, and it has lines like this made of copper, or it's copper, I think.

So this is the role of the wires that they used to connect these things with. There's someone who designs this PCB, which means that it's drawn, at the time, of course, it was drawn with paper and pen, which was designed, at the time, of course, it was designed on the computer directly, in AutoCAD, or not in AutoCAD, but in programs specialized in electronics. And then they give it to a certain factory, and they accept it. The printed circuit board is not printed in a printer like paper, but it is said to be printed. But you take the PCB and buy the components that you need, the microprocessor, the memory, and some other things, and you put them in the PCB itself, and that's how you made the computer.

So they say that the computer used to take 3 to 4 hours from them instead of taking 40 hours, for example. So they wanted to do this because they spent all their time making computers for their friends. So we'll see what they did to do this. Am I clear? Or are there any questions? No, I'm with you, Omar, but I just want to say a few words. The board you're talking about is made of a kind of fiber, like wood. It has a thin layer of copper, and the copper is painted with something like a waterproof pen, and then you apply a solvent solution to it, so the copper that is not painted with this waterproof pen gives you the whole network.

Exactly. It's called etching. This process is called etching. You cover the whole board with copper, and then it comes to the paths that you want to be on the board, and you cover it with a certain substance. It's called etching. You apply this acid to it, and the acid removes the areas that don't have access to these paths. Then there's a small hole at the ends of these paths, and you go and put the chip in it, or whatever you want to put in this place, and you use it as if you're connecting them with a set of wires. But of course, it takes a lot of time, especially since it's made in places where you don't do it yourself. It takes a lot of time, especially since it's made in places where you don't do it yourself.

But this process is not etched, but it's called printing. Because this chip itself is called a printed circuit board, or PCB. It's called a board, meaning a board, and a circuit, meaning a circuit, an electric circuit, and printed, meaning printed. The process is not etched, but that's what it's called. So we did that. I sold my Volkswagen bus, and Steve sold his calculator, and we got enough money to pay a friend of ours to make the artwork to make a printed circuit board. And we made some printed circuit boards, and we sold some to our friends. And I was trying to sell the rest of them so that we could get our microbus and calculator back.

And I walked into the first computer store in the world, which was the Byte Shop of Mountain View, I think, on El Camino. It metamorphosized into an adult bookstore a few years later. But at this point, it was the Byte Shop. And the person that ran it, I think his name was Paul Terrell, he said, you know, I'll take 50 of those. I said, this is great. He said, but I want them fully assembled. We'd never thought of this before. There was an old microbus, a Rolex.

It was his car. So he sold it, and Steve Wozniak sold it. The microbus is still in operation now. Yes, it's still in operation in certain places in Egypt. Cars don't die in Egypt. Cars in Egypt live forever. Steve Wozniak sold his calculator. By the way, at the time, calculators were expensive. What they were talking about at the time was that you buy a calculator. This was a device, you could sell it and get money. And they needed very specialized people, like the electronics specialists, like Steve Wozniak, to do the calculations that he needed in his job, instead of doing it on paper, instead of taking hours and days to do it on paper.

So this was a very expensive device. So they sold both of them. And to do the PCB design, one person did the PCB design. And then they made a set of devices and started giving them to their friends. And then Steve went to a computer store. And what did they do at the time? They sold the PCBs that the components were installed on to their friends. Their friends would take this PCB or this board, and bring a chassis, a keyboard, a power supply, and a few other things, and install it, and it would become a computer. When he went to this bike shop, which his friend's name was Paul Farrell, he told him, I'm going to take 50 of them, but I want them assembled.

I mean, I want to take computers like this, one piece, and sell it to people, because this is a computer. There's no need to buy a power supply, or assemble it, or install it, or anything like that. So Steve said that they hadn't thought about this before, because their friends who were taking these were all people with the same computer hobby. They weren't people who wanted to use a computer for something else. So we'll see what they did with this. So we then kicked this around. We thought, why not? Why not try this? And so I spent the next several days on the phone talking with electronics parts distributors. We didn't know what we were doing. And we said, look, here's the parts we need. We figured we'd buy 100 sets of parts, build 50, sell them to the bike shop for twice what it cost us to build them, therefore paying for the whole 100, and then we'd have 50 left, and we could make our profits by selling those.

So he said, we didn't know anything about the business or anything like that. So what did they do? They went to the companies that make the parts. You're going to make a number here. You're going to make 50. So you're not going to go and buy parts. He said that the computers, I forgot to translate this part. The computers they were making at first, they were making them from old and damaged pieces of wood, or, for example, they'd buy them from a shop or something like that. When they're going to make 50 of these and sell them to the company, they have to buy new parts or something like that. So they went to the manufacturers of these things and told them they wanted to buy them. So he decided to buy enough components to make 100 computers, and sell 50 of them to this bike shop at the cost of the 100 they bought.

So his shop is the second 50. Do you agree, Yasser? Yes. So he said, I'm going to collect the money I paid them for the 50. And the second 50 is a shop, and it's ruined. No, he sold his bike and sold the computer. He took some money. He bought these parts with this money. The first 50 that he's going to sell are the parts he spent. And the other 50 are the ones he's going to sell. Is that right? Yes, that's right, Omar B.

Okay, so let's see what they did. We convinced these distributors to give us the parts on net 30 days credit. We had no idea what that meant. Sure, sign here. And so we had 30 days to pay them. And so we bought the parts, we built the products, and we sold 50 of them to the bike shop in Palo Alto and got paid in 29 days and then went and paid off the parts people in 30 days. And so we were in business. But we had the classic Marxian profit realization crisis in that our profit wasn't… No, sorry, guys, don't get confused. The money they used to sell the calculator in the beginning was what the small units they were selling to their friends used. What did they do here? They went to the companies and told them…

The companies had a system called 30-day net credit. Meaning that you go and tell them, I'm going to buy these things and I'm going to pay the price in 30 days. So what did they do? They bought enough parts to make 100 computers. Okay? And they sold the first 50 of them at the cost of the 100 they bought. So in the first 30 days, or in the 29 days, they were given the money that cost them the entire 100. And they took that money and gave it to the companies that took that part. So that's how they earned the other 50. In a liquid currency, our profit was in 50 computers sitting in the corner.

So then all of a sudden we had to think, wow, how are we going to realize our profit? And so we started thinking about distribution. Are there any other computer stores? And we started calling the other computer stores that we'd heard of across the country. And we just kind of eased into business that way. The third key figure in the creation So I'm talking about the last thing is that they are gradually entering the business stage. If I have 50 computers I will sell them to whom? So they start thinking about distribution problems. I will look for other stores to sell them But the man who is The distributor says that the third key figure has entered Because at the time, by the way, there were other people who worked with them in the company and they had sad stories like this But maybe we will be exposed to it later when we talk about the film. There are several films about Steve Jobs But let's stay in this interview itself, which is the third, not the third person who worked in the company, but the third key figure I mean, the third person whose name is still alive until now, who is the person I told you about, who worked at Intel Let's see what his story is Now Apple was former Intel executive Mike Markkula, I asked Steve how he came aboard We were designing the Apple 2 And we really had some some Much higher ambitions for the Apple 2 was his ambitions where he wanted to add color graphics my ambition was That

It was very clear to me that while there were a bunch of hardware hobbyists they could assemble their own computers or at least take our board and Add the transformers for the power supply in the case and the keyboard and go get a you know Etc. Go get the rest of the stuff for every one of those There were a thousand people that couldn't do that, but wanted to mess around with programming software hobbyists Just like I had been when I was you know 10 discovering that computer And so my dream for the Apple 2 was to sell the first real Packaged computer packaged personal computer. We didn't have to be a hardware hobbyist at all and so combining both of those dreams we actually designed the product and We I found a designer and we designed the packaging and everything and we wanted to make it out of plastic And we have the whole thing ready to go, but we needed some money for tooling the case and things like that We needed we needed a few hundred thousand dollars Mike my fully on would be In the home Gazelle and I'll tell you the only little more about will in Mahalla that I can is more Apple one Oh, well, I'm sorry. I can is more Apple by the kids. I'm an Apple one Apple Apple Van fall of that among a little chocolate on Monday We are neglected each illness can for beginners Amelita I'm buddies gonna help me look up 특히 هو بل AfD If you wasn't Cam raise Ambedda you thought illustrate and he anymore He has become a color graphic I mean, it's like a consumer device because he was saying he was trying to move from the hardware hobbyist stage

Who are the people who bought these computers to be a computer as a computer itself Who are the people like Steve Wozniak For people who are like Steve Jobs and he was young when he was 10 years old Who are the people who are interested in the computer is the software is the programming itself I mean, people are not interested in the computer itself. How does it work from the inside or the circuits? No, he's not. He wants to make a product So, I mean, you take it, you open it, you take it out of the box, you connect it to the electricity and you use it You write programs on it as soon as you don't have a claim to his story from the inside. This is what it looks like, or what are the conditions from the inside You deal with it as a software, but that was the two goals of them, which each of them was focused on In the second generation of the Apple II, they hired a designer and they made the design of the box and everything Or the chassis, or what is said about this case now But they needed some money, $600,000 or $400,000, for example So that they could manufacture all these things So let's see how they got the money And I ran across one venture capitalist named Don Valentine Who came over to the garage and he later said I look like a renegade from the human race That was his famous quote And he said he wasn't willing to invest in us, but he recommended a few people that might And one of them was Mike Markkula So I called Mike on the phone and Mike came over and Mike had retired at about 30 or 31 from Intel He was a product manager there and gotten a little bit of stock

And made like a million bucks on stock options, which at that time was quite a lot of money And he'd been investing in oil and gas deals and kind of staying home and doing that sort of thing And he, I think, was kind of antsy to get back into something And Mike and I hit it off very well And so Mike said, OK, I'll invest after a few weeks And I said, no, we don't want your money, we want you So we convinced Mike to actually throw in with us as an equal partner And so Mike... So Steve Jobs said, no, we don't want your money, we want you So as I said, Mike Markkula was a product manager at Intel And there are big companies in the US right now that have something called stock options So when the company is just starting, you as a guy, especially the big guys in the company They have the option that part of their salary is just shares in the company So when the company goes public, and it blows up, it becomes very rich So Mike Markkula made about a million dollars, which was a lot of money at the time And he retired from Intel and was investing in things like oil and gas

And then after a while, he felt like he wanted to go back and do something So that's when Steve convinced him to stay with them and run the company itself Other than the investment But to us, it was very large And so we had this fantastic booth there We had a projection television showing the Apple II and showing its graphics Which today look very crude, but at that time were by far the most advanced graphics on a personal computer And I think, you know, my recollection is we stole the show And a lot of dealers and distributors started lining up And we were off and running How old were you?

21 You're 21, you're a big success You know, you've just sort of done it by the seat of your pants You don't have any particular training Can you rewind the video, please? I'll try to get the story I'll try to get the story I'll try to get the story I'll try to get the story I'll try to get the story Do you want to get a picture of the computer itself? Do you want to get a picture of the computer itself? Yes, I got it, I found it Yes, I got it, I found it Okay, no problem, we can stop the share and show it Okay, no problem, we can stop the share and show it No, I found it already, Omar B I'll show it to people before we continue So that they can only imagine what we're saying This is Omar B, right?

Yes, this is him Yes, this is Omar B, right? Yes, this is him This is the computer So that people can only imagine what we're saying Of course, he has a very strange eating habit Of course, he has a very strange eating habit But at that time, this was the pinnacle of technology But at that time, this was the pinnacle of technology May I sit further, Omar B? Learn to run a company. What is your vision?

We were building our Apple Ones in the garage. We knew exactly what they cost. When we got into a factory in the Apple two days, the accounting had this notion of a standard cost where you kind of set a standard cost. At the end of a quarter, you'd adjust it with a variance. And I kept asking, well, why do we do this? And the answer was, well, that's just the way it's done. And after about six months of digging into this, what I realized was, the reason you do it is because you don't really have good enough controls to know how much it costs. So you guess and then you fix your guess at the end of the quarter. And the reason you don't know how much it costs is because your information systems aren't good enough. So but nobody said it that way.

And so later on, when we designed this automated factory for Macintosh, we were able to get rid of a lot of these antiquated concepts and know exactly what something costs to the second. So in business, a lot of things are I call it folklore. They're done because they were done yesterday and the day before. And so what that means is, is if you're willing to sort of ask a lot of questions and think about things and work really hard, you can learn business pretty fast. It's not the hardest thing in the world. Not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. See what we did with them. Well, I'll give you a simple example. When we were designing our blue box, we used we wrote a lot of custom programs to help us design it. You know, and to do a lot of the dog work for us in terms of calculating master frequencies with sub divisors to get other frequencies and things like that.

We used the computer quite a bit to calculate, you know, how how much air we would get in the frequencies and how much could be tolerated. So we use them in our work. But but much more importantly, it had nothing to do with using them for anything practical. It had to do with using them to be a mirror of your thought process to actually learn how to think. I think the greatest value of learning how I think everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer, should learn a computer language because it teaches you how to think. It's like going to law school. I don't think anybody should be a lawyer, but I think going to law school would actually be useful because it teaches you how to think in a certain way, in the same way that computer programming teaches you in a slightly different way how to think.

And so I view computer science as a liberal art. It should be something that everybody learned. You know, takes it takes a year in their life. One of the courses they take is, you know, learning how to program. Yeah, but I learned APL, which, you know, obviously is part of the reason why I'm going through life sideways. What was it in you? Can you look back and consider it an enriching experience that taught you to think in a different way or not? No, not that particularly. Other languages perhaps more so. I started with APL. You share a computer and you personally program it.

You write programs that do certain things for you. So he asks him, what do you do with this computer? So he tells him, personally, for example, when we were designing the Blue Box, which is the first device that they used to make these calls, they used the computers that they rented at that time to calculate the frequencies and the sub-dividers. But he told him, not just that, but that the computer teaches you to think in a certain way. It teaches you programming language in itself. It changes something in your brain. It teaches you a new way of thinking. So his opinion, for example, is that one of the things that made America, or any good country, of course, but he's talking in a public language.

He thinks that all people should take a year in their lives, or a term, for example, to study programming. To study programming language. Because even if you don't work on this subject in your life, and it has no effect on your work, and you won't use it at all in your life, but he thinks that this is a basic skill, because it changes something in your way of thinking. He gave an example of something else. He used to say that he thinks that all people should learn the law. Also to a certain extent. He doesn't say that he thinks that all people should go to college. But he thinks that you learn, for example, a year or a term, to learn the law, and not to learn the law in the sense that, and I'm sorry for saying this, but I read this somewhere else, so I know that this is what he meant.

Not to learn the law in the sense that you know the laws, or you know what your duties are. No, that's not what he's talking about. He's talking about understanding the idea of the law itself. Why is there a law? Why is there a constitution? What law is this? What constitution is this? Where did it come from? What do we do with it? Why are the things that they teach in law schools supposed to be like this? He says that these things, that you learn the principles of them, or the basic things in them, change something in your way of thinking. I'd like to take this example from me. It has nothing to do with me. I think that learning the law and these things is like installing a new program in your brain that didn't exist before. You can use it in other things in life, then it's not related to the law at all. But learning a certain way of thinking adds a certain thing to your brain.

So he sees that the computer itself, and programming in particular, is one of these things. He's not talking about what's in our lives, that you can use Office and Word. He's not talking about these things. He's talking about how you learn the computer itself. Programming. Let's go back to the video. So, I mean, obviously, the Apple II was a terrific success. Just incredibly so. And the company grew like Topsy, and eventually went public, and you guys got really rich. What's it like to get rich? It's very interesting. Interesting.

I was worth about over a million dollars when I was 23, and over 10 million dollars when I was 24, and over 100 million dollars when I was 25. And it wasn't that important, because I never did it for the money. I think money is a wonderful thing, because it enables you to do things. It enables you to invest in ideas that don't have a short-term payback, and things like that. But especially at that point in my life, it was not the most important thing. The most important thing was the company, the people, the products we were making, what we were going to enable people to do with these products.

So I didn't think about it a great deal. I never sold any stock. I really believed that the company would do very well over the long term. I was worth over a million dollars when I was 23, and over 10 million dollars when I was 24, and over 100 million dollars when I was 25. And I never did it for the money.

Money is a very important thing for him, because it enables you to do things. But money itself is not a goal in his life. He was very confident in the company, and the most important thing for him was the people who worked in the company, and the products they were going to make, and things like that. And here I would like to add a point from me, which has nothing to do with Steve. I have a problem with the business that is not of Steve's type. I have a problem with the business where someone has a little money, and he invests it, and you give him money. I don't have a problem with the same principle. I don't have a problem with you giving someone money, and you invest it, there is no problem. I have a problem with a certain type of business, which is the person who invests in companies in order to turn his money around quickly.

Which is to buy a share, and multiply the price of the share. I have a problem with this same principle. I don't have a problem with the idea of business, which is that you do business yourself, and you have an idea, or you have a vision, and you change the world, and you make a lot of money. I don't have a problem with you meeting someone like that, and being convinced of what he says, and being convinced that this company has a weight, and that it will do a good thing, and at the same time, it will happen. So you give him money, and you invest in it. But I have a solid problem with my business model, that I turn my money around, as if I'm playing cards. I have a problem with the concept. I don't know, I'm not in economics, so I don't know how this problem can be solved without making people proud of something, because of course I'm not an expert in these things. But I have a problem, I mean, I'm one of the people who believe in the type of business that Steve is talking about.

And yes, if you do something like this, you have the right to be rich, and you have the right to enjoy your money. There's no doubt about that. But I like to give Steve an example of the type of business that I respect. And of course, anyone can do whatever they want. But I respect the type of business that Steve is talking about more than the others. I feel that the others, there's something wrong with what they're doing. I can't put my hand on it, and I can't say what to do with it. But I feel that the people who are doing this, there's a problem. What they're doing should be wrong. Why is that? I don't know, and I don't know how to solve it. But I feel that what they're doing is harmful to society as a whole, and harmful to them personally in the end. Because this society, this behavior, is harmful to society itself.

So let's continue, and let's see what our friend has to say. Palo Alto Research Center. We can stop now, and we can do another broadcast. Right now, we're going to take some questions. What do you think, Shabih?

What you think. Let's take another episode tomorrow, and then we'll take two more episodes. Okay. As you like. See what people want. We'll continue the second episode tomorrow. And we'll see. Is there anyone... Okay. We'll see. If anyone has any questions, we can answer them in the chat. Honestly, I saw Beneluxco Freestore do a great job in the freestore, and he was talking about what you were talking about, the strike, that it's Omar, and the people who invest and invest money so that tomorrow morning the people who invest money and so on.

If anyone wants to ask something to Omar, we can take five or seven minutes to answer Omar's questions. That would be a good thing. Beneluxco Freestore says that the taxes on strikes in big countries are very high because it's profit without effort. Not all big countries. On the contrary, there are many countries... The richer you are, the more you can hire people who are experts in taxes to tell you how to make money without paying taxes in random ways.

As a principle, yes, I agree. But in the end... So, regardless of whether they are afraid of taxes or not, I think that there is something wrong with the activity itself. I mean, there is a problem that has happened for a while, people don't know, I don't know if you heard about it or not. There was a time, do you remember, Yasser, when the price of oil became negative? Do you remember this story? Yes, yes, the price of oil became negative. People don't understand the situation. This is at the beginning of Corona, almost. Before Corona, it was a simple thing, or after it started, it was a simple thing. People don't know where this story came from. This story came from the fact that there is something, the way oil is produced is a little strange.

Or a part of oil processing, not all oil. Small companies, especially when they buy oil, they buy oil in a strange way. Which are the companies that use, not the crude oil, I mean the products. The idea is that the manufacturing companies can't increase the production and decrease it tomorrow morning. I mean, they have to plan the production months in advance. And someone has to buy it, I mean, it's complicated to buy it months in advance. Small companies don't want to force themselves to buy it in advance during this period. So the big companies that sell these products, what do they do? They make a paper like this, something like bonds, you sell oil with it at a certain time. I mean, you go, you pay a certain amount, and they give you a piece of paper like this, that you have oil, you have gasoline, for example, or you have gasoline, or you have kerosene, or you have whatever product you bought, at a certain time.

I mean, for example, June 30, July 30, August 30, like this. And usually, you sell it in a month, you sell it in a month as a block, like this. It goes down one time, like this. So what happens is that some people get involved in this matter. I mean, someone who doesn't have a company, and doesn't want gasoline, and isn't going to use it in anything, and doesn't have a company at all. He enters with a little money, so what does he do? He buys this product, and then when this time comes, he sees the small companies that want to buy these things, he gives them this paper at a different price, and that's how he wins. Is that good? When Corona came, or something similar happened at that time, the demand for oil started to decrease. Okay? So people who do this, have a problem.

What is it? The time is getting closer, and they don't find anyone to sell to. And these other companies that sell, you tell them, I'm going to come to your house, today, I'll get you the things that have oil in them. Oil? You drink it yourself. I'll get you the barrel, and tell you, wear this, and see what you're going to do with it. I'll put it in your fridge. So they reduced the price, reduced the price, reduced the price, because to store oil, it's expensive. I mean, there are certain places where you can go and buy this thing, they call it a storage tank, or a big gas tank. You pay for it a month, or a week, or a day, to store what you have in it. So why is this thing so expensive?

So what did he do? He used to sell oil by the barrel. I mean, he'd get people and tell them, take the oil from me, and I'll pay you money, but I'll reduce the money that he'll pay for storing it, because that way his house will be ruined. So I see that this activity is problematic. There's something wrong with this kind of activity. I don't know how you can prevent it, because in order to prevent it, how are you going to differentiate between the person who buys it to use it, and the person who doesn't? I mean, legally, it's hard to judge. But the idea is that I see that this activity in itself is wrong. If you put your money in something to sell it immediately, and it's not important what this company does, and I don't have a claim, and it doesn't matter to me what this company produces, this activity is wrong.

That's what I'm talking about. The same idea, I thought I'd tell you, in ReStar, they tell us that the price of any product, the price of any product is less than the cost of storing it, but in terms of spending, the product becomes cheaper than the cost of storing it, so the barrel of oil becomes 30, for example, or storing it at 50, so the barrel becomes 20. And this almost happened, Mr. Mohandes, during the period when the airspace was cut off, and the airspace was prevented, so there was a lot of oil, and people didn't know where to take it, so that's why it became cheaper. Exactly.

This man is forced to sell it, and by the way, it gives money. The person who will take the oil from him, the person who will sell it, will get money from him, because of course, because it's a dangerous substance, you can't throw it in the sea, you wear it, it's yours, so you have to take it and use it, store it somewhere, drink it, you don't know how to use it. That's it, that's what we're talking about, so we built the barrel in ReStar. During this period, when there was a decrease in the activity of transportation and flying, why did the demand for oil decrease? Because the thing that consumes the most fuel is the plane.

The thing that consumes the most fuel is the plane and the cars. Exactly. Do you have anything to say before we end, Omar B.? No, I'm fine. I hope people are happy. If anyone has any questions, they can leave them in the comments. I hope people are happy and we'll see you next time. In the end, with the light that helps us, I hope we made you happy with our greetings to the other channels. Thank you for watching. See you next time.